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Valve keeps milking zombies
November 11th 2009, 17:00 CET by Milan Brezovský

Set for release on November 17, the title adds melee combat to enable deeper co-operative gameplay, with items such as a chainsaw, frying pan, axe, baseball bat, and more.

Introducing the AI Director 2.0, L4D's dynamic gameplay is taken to the next level by giving the Director the ability to procedurally change weather effects, world objects, and pathways in addition to tailoring the enemy population, effects, and sounds to match the players' performance. The result is a unique game session custom fitted to provide a satisfying and uniquely challenging experience each time the game is played.

Featuring new Survivors, boss zombies, weapons, and items, Left 4 Dead 2 offers a much larger game than the original with more co-operative campaigns, more Versus campaigns, and maps for Survival mode available at launch.

So, let's interview the resident Valve employee on the chainsaw details.
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Home » Topic: Valve keeps milking zombies

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#36 by lwf
2009-11-17 19:56:27
I don't think we'll see another orange box. Orange box put valve back on the map. They don't need to give that much shit away again. Also, valve are cunts. Right Caryn?

Handsome like a coat hanger. Wii.
#37 by Matt Perkins
2009-11-17 20:08:26
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I <3 Valve, even if they don't want Caryn in The Jets.


As for what I was talking about earlier...yeah, they put massive effort, changes and great design over the long haul in TF2 (the Orange Box essentially). They didn't really near that amount with LFD. Now, they are trying a quick sequel, which is almost unheard for Valve, to see how that money stream works I'm guessing. I hope it goes great for them, but I don't think I'll be buying LFD2 at full price.

"Fucking Radio Shack. It's a wonder they even know how to use a bathroom and don't just walk around all day with shit in their pants." - smds
"the concept that a happy worker is a productive worker is hardly an entry from Matt's Big Book Of Things The Fairies Said." - Dum
#38 by LPMiller
2009-11-17 21:50:17
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
It took TF2 a while to have the content it has now. The initial product didn't release with all that many maps or modes, on it's own. Comparing it as part of the Orange Box package strikes me as unfair.

I have no problem not paying full price for it. I picked up the first L4D when it was half off. I've been playing it since then, too. To say it hasn't been supported as much as TF2 at this point in it's lifecycle is just wrong. Now, sure, but TF2 has been out a lot longer.

"Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."

"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble
#39 by lwf
2009-11-17 22:03:04
The main problem I have with L4D is that I don't find it to be very much fun to play.

Handsome like a coat hanger. Wii.
#40 by TreeFrog
2009-11-17 22:11:31
I think I once heard this one guy talk about something called Episode 3. Dunno what happened to him. Ballooning accident, I think. Or wolverines.

"Don't try to take cover by the legs of my walker.  It will not go well for you." - Shadarr
#41 by Ng Yo
2009-11-19 11:59:02
ATTENTION CRAPPERS:
------------------------

Recently I came across an awesome thread on a forum, about graffiti in games -specifically pc games.

GRAFFITI IN GAMES EXHIBITION @ MARIO'S WORLD. (WORLD EXCLUSIVE!!)



_____ (C)2009 Mario's World. All Rights Reserved.

§ Pimp of  Mario's World. Hater of society. §
#42 by Dethstryk
2009-11-19 19:35:19
jemartin@tcainternet.com
FYI L4D2 is p awesome

\"Making love to a woman is like working on an assembly line. No matter how good you are at it, you\'ll eventually be replaced by a foreigner or a machine.\"
#43 by Milan Brezovský
2009-11-19 19:43:51
http://uglycode.com
Not f awesome?

Parhelic Triangle is coming.
#44 by Squeaky
2009-11-19 19:48:31
it's j awesome.

#45 by Dethstryk
2009-11-19 20:22:55
jemartin@tcainternet.com
p f jawesome, lol

\"Making love to a woman is like working on an assembly line. No matter how good you are at it, you\'ll eventually be replaced by a foreigner or a machine.\"
#46 by BobJustBob
2009-11-19 20:30:08
I played the first campaign last night solo and then in versus mode and it's pretty damn good.

"CS is still one of the best, and fun, tactical FPS multiplayer games out there." -- Perkins
#47 by yotsuya
2009-11-19 20:39:58
How about p b j awesome?

#48 by jjohnsen
2009-11-19 23:16:40
http://www.johnsenclan.com
How about jj awesome?

#49 by Dethstryk
2009-11-20 02:27:35
jemartin@tcainternet.com
How about you're all motherfuckers and I love you, assholes. Haters.

\"Making love to a woman is like working on an assembly line. No matter how good you are at it, you\'ll eventually be replaced by a foreigner or a machine.\"
#50 by gaggle
2009-11-21 16:06:06
I found myself rather pleased with the latest episode of Stargate Universe. That is all.

"Roses are red, violets are blue, rubbish is dumped and so are you." - FML
#51 by Milan Brezovský
2009-11-21 18:11:56
http://uglycode.com
Matt, how is that iPhone app development coming along? I've just noticed that Flash CS5 will have a native support for building iPhone/iPod Touch applications, so I'm getting curious about jumping on the ever-growing app building ship.

Parhelic Triangle is coming.
#52 by gaggle
2009-11-21 19:00:05
V, on the other hand, seems like complete and utter trite shite. Good lord.

"Roses are red, violets are blue, rubbish is dumped and so are you." - FML
#53 by Matt Perkins
2009-11-21 19:03:30
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Milan Brezovský (#51):
Matt, how is that iPhone app development coming along? I've just noticed that Flash CS5 will have a native support for building iPhone/iPod Touch applications, so I'm getting curious about jumping on the ever-growing app building ship.

That's pretty cool shit. I haven't done much with it since I found I needed I mac. I never bothered to take the hardware plunge or try to make my intel box run the Mac OS. Basically, I didn't care enough to continue at that point. :P

"Fucking Radio Shack. It's a wonder they even know how to use a bathroom and don't just walk around all day with shit in their pants." - smds
"the concept that a happy worker is a productive worker is hardly an entry from Matt's Big Book Of Things The Fairies Said." - Dum
#54 by Matt Perkins
2009-11-21 19:04:07
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
gaggle (#52):
V, on the other hand, seems like complete and utter trite shite. Good lord.

Huh...because I'm liking it a bit. I've only seen two eps, but it's been interesting enough.

"Fucking Radio Shack. It's a wonder they even know how to use a bathroom and don't just walk around all day with shit in their pants." - smds
"the concept that a happy worker is a productive worker is hardly an entry from Matt's Big Book Of Things The Fairies Said." - Dum
#55 by Milan Brezovský
2009-11-21 19:18:02
http://uglycode.com
Yeah, I don't care enough to buy a Mac (although I could get myself to finding "trial" versions of Mac OS and virtual machine), but with developing inside Flash Pro / Flash Builder / with Flex SDK would cut that annoyance away.

I'm afraid that once CS5 is released, Flash developers will flood the app store, and the market will just become much tougher, especially if top Flash game developers begin publishing their already finished, polished games.

At the same time, that is what I absolutely love about Flash 10.1 - one application, all platforms. Browsers (win/mac/linux), smartphones (WM, iPhone, Symbian, BlackBerry OS). Bam, all development platforms I find interesting.

Parhelic Triangle is coming.
#56 by gaggle
2009-11-21 20:21:53
Ugh. But everything is so cheesy! I can't overcome it.

To me it feels like 2nd rate drama. What would you say is the part of V you find most interesting? Like, do you feel for the priest's cause? I thought it incredibly boring and lazy how he just saw a bloodied man die in pain in his church and all he did was go turn in an envelope. Surprise!, he hooks up with our try-hard mom. Who lets herself be cut in the line of duty by a crazy man that for some reason isn't being laughed out of the warehouse by his crazy conspiracy theory. It just feels so… cheesy! Everyone are empty shells being puppeteered around in service of a bland alien story.

I can feel how the actors are pretending to be caricatures of people: There's the career-minded journalist, the try-hard mom, the naive son, the conspiracy-guy-who-has-it-all-figured-out, etc. There's no particularly clever dialogue, nor do we get close enough to the people to make them stand out much. Even the aliens are like us, with remote controls and see-through televisions, there's no interesting take on this alien society. And c'mon, those FBI agents don't feel like they're part of a big bureau do they? It feels more like they run around doing what a script writer thinks FBI agents do. I'd point to Flash Forward as an example of how to pull off a much stronger characterization of that line of work.

Maybe the characters are simple because the story is so broad, but do you feel the story is interesting enough to stand on its own? So the aliens have been here for a long time and are the cause of all our real-world problems and now they're here to fuck us up good, with only FBI-mom, Priestboy, Crazy-Conspiracy-Guy and the V-opposition to stand between us and certain doom. Oh I wonder if they'll make it??? I can't shake the feeling it's a 2nd tier show retelling an already told story.

It actually feels a lot like Stargate Atlantis or some of the recent Stargate movies. Everything feels like actors running around in service of a story that's not really that interesting. To me it's a sharp contrast to shows like Generation Kill, Daybreak, Dexter and others that all have these detailed characters and settings as well as unpredictable stories. I'm not saying those shows have universal appeal, but I am saying they offer far more nuanced characters and higher quality stories.


Or what, do you just watch V to turn off your brain? Empty hollow entertainment? I don't mean that to sound condescending, turning off my brain is one of my favorite pastimes :)

"Roses are red, violets are blue, rubbish is dumped and so are you." - FML
#57 by CheesyPoof
2009-11-21 22:31:59
Each episode of V has been better than the last. The pilot was very rushed, I think, just to get all the pieces in places. They could have took their time with it, but I don't think that's the story they want to tell. Basically it's going to be the resistance and 5th column versus the Visitors, but they didn't feel they could throw that out there and are doing a half asses backstory. I think it can turn into a good show. Plenty of SF shows needed a bit of time to find their groove.

<Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
#58 by Matt Perkins
2009-11-22 00:21:07
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Milan Brezovský (#55):
Yeah, I don't care enough to buy a Mac (although I could get myself to finding "trial" versions of Mac OS and virtual machine), but with developing inside Flash Pro / Flash Builder / with Flex SDK would cut that annoyance away.

I'm afraid that once CS5 is released, Flash developers will flood the app store, and the market will just become much tougher, especially if top Flash game developers begin publishing their already finished, polished games.

At the same time, that is what I absolutely love about Flash 10.1 - one application, all platforms. Browsers (win/mac/linux), smartphones (WM, iPhone, Symbian, BlackBerry OS). Bam, all development platforms I find interesting.

The bigger problem with iPhone apps...

"Fucking Radio Shack. It's a wonder they even know how to use a bathroom and don't just walk around all day with shit in their pants." - smds
"the concept that a happy worker is a productive worker is hardly an entry from Matt's Big Book Of Things The Fairies Said." - Dum
#59 by Matt Perkins
2009-11-22 00:22:24
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I find V interesting because of the overall theory really... And the fact that I remember the original.

"Fucking Radio Shack. It's a wonder they even know how to use a bathroom and don't just walk around all day with shit in their pants." - smds
"the concept that a happy worker is a productive worker is hardly an entry from Matt's Big Book Of Things The Fairies Said." - Dum
#60 by LPMiller
2009-11-22 00:26:23
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
it's missing the every important Mark Singer character.

But gaggle, the original was quite cheesy.

"Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."

"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble
#61 by gaggle
2009-11-22 00:37:36
Mark Singer for president.

But today's version has to stand on its own legs right? I fondly remember seeing V as a miniseries back when I was a kid but that was a lifetime ago. Things change. Maybe they should've remastered the original if they wanted a similar copy with the same level of storytelling.

"Roses are red, violets are blue, rubbish is dumped and so are you." - FML
#62 by Milan Brezovský
2009-11-22 00:50:27
http://uglycode.com
#58 by Matt Perkins

The bigger problem with iPhone apps...

There is a warez scene for iPhone? I'm going to get one.

Parhelic Triangle is coming.
#63 by Matt Perkins
2009-11-22 00:52:45
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Some games are reporting 90% piracy rate... It's crazy land out there!

"Fucking Radio Shack. It's a wonder they even know how to use a bathroom and don't just walk around all day with shit in their pants." - smds
"the concept that a happy worker is a productive worker is hardly an entry from Matt's Big Book Of Things The Fairies Said." - Dum
#64 by jjohnsen
2009-11-22 01:22:42
http://www.johnsenclan.com
Don't you have to have a jailbroken phone to pirate apps?  I didn't think there were that many jailbroken phones anymore.

#65 by Chunkstyle
2009-11-22 02:37:03
V is fun.  Cheesy entertainment can still be entertaining.

Game Developers: Don't forget the zombie monkeys.
#66 by Squeaky
2009-11-22 07:03:28
#64 by jjohnsen

Don't you have to have a jailbroken phone to pirate apps?  I didn't think there were that many jailbroken phones anymore.

I am the only person I know who's phone isn't Jailbroken.

#67 by Hugin
2009-11-22 07:24:55
lmccain@nber.org
#66 by Squeaky

I am the only person I know who's phone isn't Jailbroken.


I personally know about 20 iPhone users, between friends and work.  No one has jailbroken their phone.

"Bioshock, sadly, is no Painkiller." - BobJustBob
#68 by Shadarr
2009-11-22 09:55:52
shadarr@gmail.com http://digital-luddite.com
Yeah, but Squeaky's young, and goes to school with even younger.

"I hope you one day decide to smarten the fuck up so I can stand to look at your posts." - gaggle
#69 by Squeaky
2009-11-22 11:05:09
#68 by Shadarr

Yeah, but Squeaky's young, and goes to school with even younger.

I am the only person in my class with an iPhone, everyone else uses a blackberry.


My dad has a jailbroken iPhone, so does my uncle, my cousins husband, and my brother-in-law as well as his brother.

#70 by lwf
2009-11-22 11:08:42
Blackberry is going down so hard.

Handsome like a coat hanger. Wii.
#71 by Milan Brezovský
2009-11-22 12:51:30
http://uglycode.com
Squeaky's got smart classmates and lwf is wrong.
The prediction for the iPhone market share is pretty much the same, but changes to the estimate for Blackberry move it to third place while iPhone falls to fourth.


Parhelic Triangle is coming.
#72 by lwf
2009-11-22 13:04:37
Blackberries suck, the hardware sucks, the software sucks even more than the hardware. They're going down and they deserve to go down.

Handsome like a coat hanger. Wii.
#73 by jjohnsen
2009-11-22 15:05:35
http://www.johnsenclan.com
#66 by Squeaky

#64 by jjohnsen

Don't you have to have a jailbroken phone to pirate apps?  I didn't think there were that many jailbroken phones anymore.

I am the only person I know who's phone isn't Jailbroken.

Really?  I'm the only person I know who has Jailbroken their phone.

#74 by Hugin
2009-11-22 16:54:44
lmccain@nber.org
#70 by lwf

Blackberry is going down so hard.


I wonder lumpy the regional distributions of these devices are, because I know literally one Blackberry user, and he's dumping his in a few months.


#71 by Milan Brezovský

Squeaky's got smart classmates and lwf is wrong.
The prediction for the iPhone market share is pretty much the same, but changes to the estimate for Blackberry move it to third place while iPhone falls to fourth.


That analysis seems to be based on the idea that iPhone will continue to be an AT&T exclusive.  I doubt that highly.

"Bioshock, sadly, is no Painkiller." - BobJustBob
#75 by LPMiller
2009-11-22 17:03:22
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
I wonder lumpy myself, sometimes.

"Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."

"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble
#76 by CheesyPoof
2009-11-22 17:13:55
#73 by jjohnsen
Really?  I'm the only person I know who has Jailbroken their phone.

Reported!

<Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
#77 by Hugin
2009-11-22 17:22:20
lmccain@nber.org
Wonder how lumpy, humph.

"Bioshock, sadly, is no Painkiller." - BobJustBob
#78 by Milan Brezovský
2009-11-22 18:01:53
http://uglycode.com
#72 by lwf

Blackberries suck, the hardware sucks, the software sucks even more than the hardware. They're going down and they deserve to go down.

Blackberries are awesome, although quite sour. But nothing a little bit of sugar wouldn't fix.

Hardware sucks? 624 MHz tri-core Bold is not fast enough for you? Capable of smooth multi-tasking, playing music, reading email, browsing, reading RSS, messaging on gTalk and BBM at the same time? With a battery lifetime of several days?

Software doesn't suck, either. They've built a secure platform. Of course, there isn't nearly as much 3rd party software for BlackBerry as for the other platforms, but they're improving their developer tools, App World, etc. Also, their OS5 is pretty awesome.

I'm not saying the BlackBerry is a phone for everyone, but no, they're not going down. And yes, the Gartner analysis sounds weird, I'd like to read the full report.

Parhelic Triangle is coming.
#79 by lwf
2009-11-22 19:47:02
No dude, they suck. They are all over the place here for a number of reasons, but BBM is their only real advantage and they are due for a major crash.

And the Bold and its lack of a touchscreen can blow me all day long before I'll use it for anything else.

Handsome like a coat hanger. Wii.
#80 by Milan Brezovský
2009-11-22 19:53:27
http://uglycode.com
BB has the best non-touch phone UI. And they plan to have hybrid touch/QWERTY phones, which I'm interested in.

Also, find a girlfriend. Getting blown by a cell phone is not healthy. Probably causes blindness or something.

Parhelic Triangle is coming.
#81 by Caryn
2009-11-23 08:55:03
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
Regarding Stargate: Universe, I tried it and gave up after three episodes. It's awful. I really liked SG:1 but this series has terrible everything: terrible characters, terrible plots, terrible devices. Eli is the only good character and that's only because he's the least bad character on the show. The entire population is on a floating deus ex machina...the ship is a super powerful thing that seems to anticipate everything and saves them from certain doom at just the last minute because oh they didn't know the ship could do that!! It's lazy writing. The female characters are utterly atrocious, the male characters are cardboard and flat.

#82 by TreeFrog
2009-11-23 12:03:24
Poor Robert Carlyle. They really need to film the sequel to Trainspotting so he gets some decent work.

"Don't try to take cover by the legs of my walker.  It will not go well for you." - Shadarr
#83 by BobJustBob
2009-11-23 16:15:22
I really like Stargate Universe. I'd say more but I think Hugin really likes it too so he'll be along soon to defend it better than I can.

"CS is still one of the best, and fun, tactical FPS multiplayer games out there." -- Perkins
#84 by LPMiller
2009-11-23 17:37:12
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
i rather like it too. I also really don't think the women are treated all that sexist. I think they are treated like real people in a strange situation, and real people act like this. Especially if they are fighting off depression or whatever.

"Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."

"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble
#85 by Marsh Davies
2009-11-23 17:49:57
www.verbalchilli.com
Milan -

Is it really even about the hardware? Surely the iPhone has such a critical weight of apps and devs willing to make them that it is the only sensible choice among similar devices. I've not seen any figures, but I'd be amazed if BB wasn't tanking.

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