PlanetCrap 6.0!
Front Page (ATOM) • Submission Bin (2) • ArchivesUsersLoginCreate Account
You are currently not logged in.
T O P I C
The End of Oil
January 12th 2004, 10:00 CET by zimbardo_ugly

Not that I'm trying to turn the 'Crap into Kuro5hin or anything, but I would love to discuss this thing with people who I - sort of - know a little. Well, know in the sense I know what to expect, at least.

Civilization as we know it has lasted for - what? - a couple of decades? I mean, it's hard to imagine modern society without the Internet, without telephone, without transportation or without food. And, according to this, which at first is very easy to dismiss with a wave of a hand as yet another raving paranoid monomaniac as credible as the rest of the Internet, civilization is about to change drastically in a few decades. The problem is, once you start following his "links" and following their links, you find a lot of moderately to most credible research data which kind of claims the world will not be able to support even a smallish fraction of its current population, once we run into the end of oil reserves. Also, "The days of cheap oil are numbered. Energy scarcity will bring major global recession, food shortages, fighting over resources, and (literally) billions of human deaths". How true is it? How true can it be?

We regard our civilization and our heritage as a huge, monolitic proof that our way of life cannot end. In that, we are wrong.
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: The End of Oil

|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»|
#2 by BobJustBob
2004-01-12 10:04:56
Everyone promises the apocalypse, but no one ever delivers. I would really love if this were true.

Dood.
#3 by bago
2004-01-12 10:15:01
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
Invest in videoconferencing companies!

You DARE to worship a god other than Allah? Allah does not know who this "Ctulhu" character is, kufr, but when he finds out he is going to kick that Jew deity down a flight of fucking stairs.
#4 by hangedmanAG
2004-01-12 10:24:48
www.livejournal.com/users/hangedman_ag/
I just don't see the 'end of oil' being too significent.  If, indeed, we see an end to our supply of oil, we be forced to develop the alternatives better.  Nuclear, solar & wind power and combustable energy from renewable sources such as methanol.  

Who knows?  Maybe, we will learn to cut back on our consumption.  And that would be something we should do sooner than later as the effect of air, water and soil pollution from fossil fuels, along with global warming, are affecting our standard of life now and offer far more substantial dangers in the future.  Plus, throw in the fact that many countries (esp. the United States) are beholden to oil-rich governments and I would gladly take any paranoia if it causes us, as a whole, to lower our oil consumption.

He's all up in my Kool-Aid, and he don't even know the flavor - seen on Friendster
#5 by E-ph0nk
2004-01-12 10:25:27
http://www.electrophonk.be
There is some truth in it, but a good friend of me is bio engineer (or something like that) and she says that people who are onto the subject know about this - but that there also are a lot of things being done to solve the problem - and that most of the texts on the internet are tending to follow the usual panic/apocalypse path.
A lot of countries in Europe are allready investing heavily into alternative power sources, and there are allready some solutions for car engines - but as they can't be taxed by the governements in the same way, they are being held untill "it is needed".

On the other hand, she also says that while some preparations are being done, more effort should still be put into it, because the future lack of oil will indeed influence a large part of society - and not just the power/car industrie.

*sigh*
#6 by Ashiran
2004-01-12 11:00:13
It's not just fuel. Oil is also used for a number of other things, primarily plastics. Do you know how many plastics are on your desk right now? What if all those were gone?

I myself would love a titanium shell monitor though.

I tolerate everything except intolerance.
#7 by DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
2004-01-12 12:24:51
deathkillerint@hotmail.com
I'm going to start kidnapping Italian men.  Once we run out of oil, I'll have them shake their heads over a bucket and make me a bloody fortune.

Leader of the DKDLFDDKE (Death Killer Defense League For The Defence of Death Killers Everywhere)
#8 by The_Joker
2004-01-12 13:03:06
http://www.jackinworld.com
\"The country deserves to know -- and the president needs to answer -- why the American people were presented with misleading or manufactured intelligence as to why going to war with Iraq was necessary.\"

You stupid american fucks. READ THE TRUTH!!

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
#9 by The_Joker
2004-01-12 13:05:59
http://www.jackinworld.com
And I just find out today that apparently Jesus makes people do stuff.

Yep, it's not just the video games anymore. So next time I beat my salami in front of small children, I can just claim Jesus made me do it.

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
#10 by The_Joker
2004-01-12 13:10:15
http://www.jackinworld.com
By the way, I just don't know what the hell is happening to my english.

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
#11 by G-Man
2004-01-12 13:23:43
There are numerous serious flaws in the arguments presented by that website (which is quite clearly designed to be a piece of propoganda), but I would have to say the most serious is the author's complete failure to address coal as an alternative energy source to oil.
#12 by Gunp01nt
2004-01-12 13:43:32
supersimon33@hotmail.com
I've been hearing for years that the world's oil supply will run out in about 20 years. There are of course huge reserves available everywhere, but oil and other fossile fuels are definitely not infinite, so if not in 20 years, our oil supply is going to run dry sometime. And I don't think we can wait for 20 million years or so until the fossil fuel process has produced as much oil as we had at our disposal in the beginning of the century.

But the slow advancement of cars using an alternative fuel source is, from what I heard, caused by pressure from various petrol companies. Several car manufacturers, Renault being one of them, are rumoured to have developed extremely prudent car engines (a 1:80 ratio or something?) but are forced  by several oil companies to hold this model back and not let anybody know that kind of mile/liter of fuel ratio is possible. This might be a fictional story from Tin Foil Hat Publishers Ltd., however.

"We need to eliminate redundant trolls and consolidate our trolling interests into one streamlined mega-troll."
-Bailey
#13 by m0nty
2004-01-12 13:43:51
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
I would like to second G-Man's point about coal.

Also, I find the page to be entirely unbalanced in its complete disregard for the positives inherent in a Mad Max world - e.g. hot hot women in leather bikinis.
#14 by zimbardo_ugly
2004-01-12 14:23:59
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
#11 by G-Man
  
 There are numerous serious flaws in the arguments presented by that website (which is quite clearly designed to be a piece of propoganda), but I would have to say the most serious is the author's complete failure to address coal as an alternative energy source to oil.


True, it is possible that the author of the webpage is just one of those people who can get an erection only as doomsayers. But let me quote Matthew Simmons, president Bush's energy advisor: “We need a wake up call. We need it desperately. We need basically a new form of energy. I don’t know that there is one.”  (TV4, Sweden)

Coal is not a viable alternative to oil, I'm afraid. Besides, as even the Lockheed sponsored "Blue Planet" documentary states, we are already conducting an uncontrolled experiment on the Earth's life support systems and pollution is an issue. But that's besides the point: the point is, energy demands are increasing and any month now we could seriously run out, as you'll find if you visit the page of International workshop of oil depletion, attended by some very serious people in the industry. The world has no alternative that would satisfy the needs in volume required and I fear that a very large majority of Earth's population is about to die in the coming decades.

"Warez non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem"
#15 by bago
2004-01-12 14:25:31
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
Bah, when oil becomes scarCE, it will become more expensive, which will spurn research and adoption of alternative technologies. It's a problem that will solve itself..

The moneky poured coffee in my MOOTZ!
#16 by m0nty
2004-01-12 14:33:07
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Notwithstanding my previous flippancy, I think it is also not prudent to believe religiously in that old fucker Adam Smith to magically guide us to an everlasting paradise of perpetual-motion consumerism.

Whatever will happen, I'm pretty sure the US won't invade France, as this guy claims. Zim, you're quite obviously a smart guy, but seriously dude, you're backing the wrong horse there. This guy is an armchair paranoiac. He should realise that lawyers don't have consciences, so he should abandon his quest to find one.
#17 by E-ph0nk
2004-01-12 14:37:12
http://www.electrophonk.be
One thing I found was that when you google for "peak oil", most of the newspapers and links that show up are from alternative media, that aren't really known for the most unbiased journalism.

The ones from the bush advisor & cnn seems the most defendable

*sigh*
#18 by Jibble
2004-01-12 14:49:38
The oil will run out.  Not soon, though.  If it was soon, you'd see a price increase like you wouldn't believe.  In any case, the death of the oil industry won't mean a widespread death toll.  There's alternatives out there that are still in development and I've no doubts that they'll be viable before anything comes crashing down.  If you're worried about people not being able to heat their houses in the winter, I present you with this.  If you're concerned that people won't be able to get to work, how about this?  We survived for a long time before oil, and I guarantee you that we'll survive a long time after it's gone.

Sometimes when I'm in a difficult situation I ask, "What Would Jesus Do?"  And always a little voice inside me answers, "Well, he probably wouldn't try to cram *another* corpse into the crawl-space, moron."
#19 by Dethstryk
2004-01-12 14:53:25
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Joker -

Some of us "stupid American fucks" have known the truth for a long time already. You tend to forget that just because our government does something, doesn't mean that the majority of people support it.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#20 by m0nty
2004-01-12 14:54:31
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Oh, and before Joker says it, the best way to keep warm at night is friction.
#21 by E-ph0nk
2004-01-12 14:57:00
http://www.electrophonk.be
#19 Let us see after the electrions wether or not "the majority of the people" support it.

*sigh*
#22 by Dethstryk
2004-01-12 14:59:40
jemartin@tcainternet.com
E-ph0nk -

If that was a valid way of gauging it, I'd agree. Unfortunately, partisan politics and people who refuse to vote for ideals but rather for parties will skew any kind of real information on it.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#23 by bago
2004-01-12 15:00:26
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
Yeah, okay elrich.

The moneky poured coffee in my MOOTZ!
#24 by Dethstryk
2004-01-12 15:02:03
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Cal Elrich? You want me to shoot someone?

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#25 by Jibble
2004-01-12 15:03:01
This just in:

The Bush family doesn't so much like Saddam Hussein being in power.  This being the case it's possible that they wanted to invade Iraq and could use anything as an excuse.

This is Jibble, reporting from the 2000 election.

Also, Bush fired O'Neill about a month ago.  You think he's not just a little pissed about that?  Of course he's going to validate any "rumors" that were circulating that portrayed Bush negatively.

Related to his firing, this seems incredibly appropriate:

The resignations (of Larry Lindsey and Paul O'Neill), which came within an hour of each other, coincided with the release of a report showing 6 percent unemployment in November, matching April's rate, the highest since August 1994.

Considering it's more Bush's fault than O'Neill's that things are in the shitter, I think that shows about how much he cares whether he's doing a good job. (Hint: O'Neill openly opposed a lot of Bush's economic policies that have led to the destruction of all kinds of surpluses)

Sometimes when I'm in a difficult situation I ask, "What Would Jesus Do?"  And always a little voice inside me answers, "Well, he probably wouldn't try to cram *another* corpse into the crawl-space, moron."
#26 by Jibble
2004-01-12 15:05:02
Also, Teddy Rubskin is the best name for a bath sponge ever.

Sometimes when I'm in a difficult situation I ask, "What Would Jesus Do?"  And always a little voice inside me answers, "Well, he probably wouldn't try to cram *another* corpse into the crawl-space, moron."
#27 by bago
2004-01-12 15:06:34
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
Paul Ehrlich vs. Julian Simon

http://www.overpopulation.com/faq/People/julian_simon.html

The moneky poured coffee in my MOOTZ!
#28 by E-ph0nk
2004-01-12 15:06:35
http://www.electrophonk.be
Deth -

We've had this discussion before, but that's why I have a problem with the American voting system - as opposed to a multi-party election and governement.
The US lacks alternatives because you can either vote central-right, central left (both heavily financed by the lobby groups and corporations) or for your "alternative" party, that seems to lack any effecient opposition work.  There is little that can be done about it, as the current parties are unlikely to change this system - as it will give them less power.  

It's really a shame, because with the seize and importance of the US, comes great responsability towards the rest of the world - and another period for the bush administration is unlikely to be the best thing for both the US and the world.

*sigh*
#29 by Duality
2004-01-12 15:08:33
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
A month ago?

Try one year and a month ago.

#30 by Jibble
2004-01-12 15:13:23
Durr, bluh...I should probably check the years when I'm reading articles.

Sometimes when I'm in a difficult situation I ask, "What Would Jesus Do?"  And always a little voice inside me answers, "Well, he probably wouldn't try to cram *another* corpse into the crawl-space, moron."
#31 by The_Joker
2004-01-12 15:18:31
http://www.jackinworld.com
Deth:

It's nothing personal, as I have many friends who are americans.

When I say 'stupid american fucks', I generally mean the american government, those who are pro that government, and jafd.

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
#32 by Duality
2004-01-12 15:19:53
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
Well then next time, specify those stupid american fucks.  The rest of us stupid american fucks wish not to be lumped into the same category, as its insulting.

#33 by Gunp01nt
2004-01-12 15:20:45
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Stupid Surinamers always generalising everybody.

"We need to eliminate redundant trolls and consolidate our trolling interests into one streamlined mega-troll."
-Bailey
#34 by The_Joker
2004-01-12 15:38:19
http://www.jackinworld.com
Stupid Hollanders always having an opinion on Surinamers.

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
#35 by m0nty
2004-01-12 16:31:49
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Stupid Australians butting in where they're not wanted.
#36 by "Ralack"
2004-01-12 16:38:03
Stupid lurkers always typing something that nobody will read.
#37 by "Bad Mojo"
2004-01-12 16:42:13
I have an uncle who works for GM and he's been telling me of the pressure GM as well as the other two American car companies have been under from the government to develop engines that use alternative fuel sources (this is a political move really, just to eliminate American dependency on Middle East oil reserves.  Scores well with the 'tree-hugger' interest groups as well). The companies in turn have responded with things like the Hybrids.  Also I believe GM will be releasing vehicles sometimes in the near future (I think this year) that'll allow one to turn off half of the pistons in an engine at will, perfect for those occasions when you're stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic.  These are some of the more immediate, quick fix solutions.  However, the big push, my uncle tells me, is for vehicles to switch over to hydrogen fuel cell technology in the next couple of decades.  They already have some fairly successful test vehicles and interestingly enough, the waste is drinkable water :).  

What's my point to all of this?  I don't think we're in as big trouble as the article proclaims.  Yeah, oil will run out but I think we'll have some pretty good alternatives for transportation by then.

Also, while we're on the topic of depleting oil resources, there's another resource that is equally if not more important than oil that we are running out of: fresh, drinking water.  Of course, tech could alleviate this problem as well.
#38 by LPMiller
2004-01-12 16:56:28
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Well, it seems like fuel cells would cure that. Thirsty? Put a tap in the car.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#39 by Jibble
2004-01-12 17:02:12
Considering that you can purify 4 liters of water in about 20 minutes with a flashlight-sized device ("more time for sketchy water"), I don't think we have a lot to worry about.  Have you seen any headlines about soldiers dying from drinking bad water?  Didn't think so.

Sometimes when I'm in a difficult situation I ask, "What Would Jesus Do?"  And always a little voice inside me answers, "Well, he probably wouldn't try to cram *another* corpse into the crawl-space, moron."
#40 by Bailey
2004-01-12 17:08:41
The sooner we get to start shooting people for their go-juice, the happier I'll be.

Life without shame.
#41 by Charles
2004-01-12 17:21:03
www.bluh.org
GM is working on hydrogen fuel cell cars that are revolutionary.  It's all drive by wire, with no real engine.  Just some electric motors on each tire.  They are aiming to put them in full production within a decade.  

Current estimates show that by the time this is ready to go, hydrogen will still cost about ten times that of gasoline right now; but I figure that since the prices of gasoline and oil products are probably going to keep rising indefinitely, there probably won't be too big of a gap.  Plus I'm sure someone will figure out a better way of filling the hydrogen fuel cells.  Not only that, but as a transitionary element, gasoline fuel cells can be used with the car, instead of hydrogen fuel cells.  

I don't think the lack of oil will be a real issue cause there's a possible solution for just about every scenario.  And if there isn't a good one, we'll either A) Make it work, or B) find a better one.  It's amazing what pressure can do.

I'm not exactly worried about society collapsing because we can't take cars to work.

<Gabe> My indifference is palpable!
#42 by Jibble
2004-01-12 17:24:32
If anything we'll get thinner.  All the better.

Re: Bailey - you're dying to stab people with that Tank Girl water harvesting device, aren't you.

Sometimes when I'm in a difficult situation I ask, "What Would Jesus Do?"  And always a little voice inside me answers, "Well, he probably wouldn't try to cram *another* corpse into the crawl-space, moron."
#43 by Terata
2004-01-12 17:26:40
I think we all are.
#44 by Ashiran
2004-01-12 17:31:08
Fatties will just die.

Or be eaten.

I tolerate everything except intolerance.
#45 by deadlock
2004-01-12 17:32:17
http://www.deadlocked.org/
I'm stating the obvious here, but since no one else has bothered, here goes:

Whether or not oil shortages constitute a significant problem depends entirely on the situation and could even turn out to be a positive thing in some respects. Not being able to transport goods across the globe by road will probably be a bit of a boon for local employment, I'm (half-) thinking.

Also, a shortage for oil will pose a bigger problem for places like, say, Los Angeles than for New York or Paris. LA was/is built almost entirely with cars in mind, whereas NY and Paris where not. Obviously people in the suburbs of those cities will have a hard time travelling to/from the centres.

I'm thinking that one of the biggest obstacles (for the average road-user) will be getting people out of the mindset that makes them believe that they have to drive to the local shop rather than walk the two or three miles.

I know there are wider issues here (not everything that is currently distributed via our road network can be produced locally, for example), but even taking that into account I don't think we're quite into a Mad Max situation.

ridicule is nothing to be scared of
#46 by Jibble
2004-01-12 17:32:27
Soylent Green, coming soon to your grocer's freezer.

Disclaimer: Taste varies from person to person

Sometimes when I'm in a difficult situation I ask, "What Would Jesus Do?"  And always a little voice inside me answers, "Well, he probably wouldn't try to cram *another* corpse into the crawl-space, moron."
#47 by chris
2004-01-12 17:34:33
cwb@shaithis.com http://www.cerebraldebris.com
It saddens me when people reference the stupid Tank Girl movie when there are so many fine acts of violence in the far superior Tank Girl comic books.

Additionally, anyone who thinks GW won't be reelected come November is setting themselves up for disappointment.

-chris
#48 by Warren Marshall
2004-01-12 17:35:24
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#46 Jibble
Soylent Green, coming soon to your grocer's freezer.

Disclaimer: Taste varies from person to person

I finally watched that movie for the first time last night.  "It's made of people!"  By implication and little evidence of course...  A modern remake would show the actual conversion process so I think someone should make it.  And more sex with the furniture plz...

"Cheap Garbage Disposal Can’t Handle Femur"
#49 by Jibble
2004-01-12 17:35:40
I will vote against him, but will not be disappointed (or surprised in the least) when he carries my state (Texas) in a landslide.

Sometimes when I'm in a difficult situation I ask, "What Would Jesus Do?"  And always a little voice inside me answers, "Well, he probably wouldn't try to cram *another* corpse into the crawl-space, moron."
#50 by chris
2004-01-12 17:37:11
cwb@shaithis.com http://www.cerebraldebris.com
Maybe a modern remake could actually go by the book, in which Soylent Green is not made of people, but of Soy beans and Lentils.

-chris
#51 by Jibble
2004-01-12 17:38:50
Soybean/lentil processing plant vs. People processing plant.

A winner is people processing.

Sometimes when I'm in a difficult situation I ask, "What Would Jesus Do?"  And always a little voice inside me answers, "Well, he probably wouldn't try to cram *another* corpse into the crawl-space, moron."
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: The End of Oil

|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»|
P O S T   A   C O M M E N T

You need to be logged in to post a comment here. If you don't have an account yet, you can create one here. Registration is free.
C R A P T A G S
Simple formatting: [b]bold[/b], [i]italic[/i], [u]underline[/u]
Web Links: [url=www.mans.de]Cool Site[/url], [url]www.mans.de[/url]
Email Links: [email=some@email.com]Email me[/email], [email]some@email.com[/email]
Simple formatting: Quoted text: [quote]Yadda yadda[/quote]
Front Page (ATOM) • Submission Bin (2) • ArchivesUsersLoginCreate Account
You are currently not logged in.
There are currently 0 people browsing this site. [Details]