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T O P I C
The End of Oil
January 12th 2004, 10:00 CET by zimbardo_ugly

Not that I'm trying to turn the 'Crap into Kuro5hin or anything, but I would love to discuss this thing with people who I - sort of - know a little. Well, know in the sense I know what to expect, at least.

Civilization as we know it has lasted for - what? - a couple of decades? I mean, it's hard to imagine modern society without the Internet, without telephone, without transportation or without food. And, according to this, which at first is very easy to dismiss with a wave of a hand as yet another raving paranoid monomaniac as credible as the rest of the Internet, civilization is about to change drastically in a few decades. The problem is, once you start following his "links" and following their links, you find a lot of moderately to most credible research data which kind of claims the world will not be able to support even a smallish fraction of its current population, once we run into the end of oil reserves. Also, "The days of cheap oil are numbered. Energy scarcity will bring major global recession, food shortages, fighting over resources, and (literally) billions of human deaths". How true is it? How true can it be?

We regard our civilization and our heritage as a huge, monolitic proof that our way of life cannot end. In that, we are wrong.
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#951 by yotsuya
2004-01-23 23:18:41
Hasbro? When do you think we'll be seeing Magic cards with GI Joe paintings on them?

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#952 by Ergo
2004-01-23 23:21:48
#950 Squeaky
#949 Ergo
#946 Squeaky
When did WotC buy Avalon Hill?

I thought Hasbro bought AH.

I assume Hasbro owns WotC?

Other way around. Hasbro owns Wizards.

Duff Man promises a lotta things. Oh, yeah!
DVDs
#953 by Jibble
2004-01-23 23:21:48
Hasbro does, in fact, own Wizards of the Coast.

From the Wotc website:

1995-2003 Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Wizards is headquartered in Renton, Washington
PO Box 707, Renton, WA 98057.
PRIVACY STATEMENT

If I had to choose between the '80s classics "Beat Street" or "Breakin'" for a prestigious award, I'd probably have to go with the latter, since its sequel introduced the mind-shattering concept of marrying *electricity* with the boogaloo.
#954 by Ergo
2004-01-23 23:24:08
VINDICATED

Duff Man promises a lotta things. Oh, yeah!
DVDs
#955 by Jibble
2004-01-23 23:25:18
#952 Ergo
#950 Squeaky
I assume Hasbro owns WotC?

Other way around. Hasbro owns Wizards.


What?

If I had to choose between the '80s classics "Beat Street" or "Breakin'" for a prestigious award, I'd probably have to go with the latter, since its sequel introduced the mind-shattering concept of marrying *electricity* with the boogaloo.
#956 by Squeaky
2004-01-23 23:26:44
#955 Jibble
#952 Ergo
#950 Squeaky
I assume Hasbro owns WotC?

Other way around. Hasbro owns Wizards.


What?
my thoughts exactly

-szcx
dvds
#957 by Squeaky
2004-01-23 23:28:21
huh. there's a missing quote tag or two in there

-szcx
dvds
#958 by Ergo
2004-01-23 23:28:37
Hoo, boy. This has been a LOOONG week. I'll go shoot myself.

Duff Man promises a lotta things. Oh, yeah!
DVDs
#959 by Your Friend
2004-01-24 00:11:13

Hoo, boy. This has been a LOOONG week. I'll go shoot myself.


GIF?

Comment Signature
#960 by Squeaky
2004-01-24 00:13:19
NO!

-szcx
dvds
#961 by Dethstryk
2004-01-24 05:23:49
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Well, I'm still stuck trying to install the game. It stays at 97%, says it is downloading updated files, and keeps freezing up on some of the later downloads. If I wait for it to ask for a retry, it seems to go a little further.

The weekend thing sounds good, but I mean.. I don't have the account, let alone the cards, for a tournament.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#962 by Your Friend
2004-01-24 05:54:58
Probably God trying to tell you something.

Comment Signature
#963 by jafd
2004-01-24 05:58:47
It's a Limited Sealed tournament. $25 to enter, they give you a bunch of the new cards. Sell them on ebay afterwards if you want, the official Darksteel release isn't for a few weeks, and there are people who would be happy to buy them early.

Ask me about your mother.
#964 by yotsuya
2004-01-24 06:21:32
Jeez- to paraphrase an old commercial from the 80s, how many of you can picture jafd waving Magic cards in front of Deth, whispering, "It'll make you feel good..."?

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#965 by LPMiller
2004-01-24 07:59:57
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Frankly, I'm not really into obsessing about jafd's hobbies.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#966 by LPMiller
2004-01-24 08:00:57
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Besides, in the scheme of things, playing a card game has got to be a major evolutionary step up from playing with pewter.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#967 by lwf
2004-01-24 08:02:48
but the dice!

Are you here right now or are there probably fossils under your meat
#968 by Dethstryk
2004-01-24 19:22:40
jemartin@tcainternet.com
No worries. I can't play because the setup always hangs up on downloading one specific file. I hit the "retry" stuff, but eventually it will always end up at 99% and hung on one file. Woo, hoo.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#969 by jjohnsen
2004-01-24 19:28:39
http://www.johnsenclan.com
Wow, so God even helps the atheist huh?

-Jeremy
#970 by Dethstryk
2004-01-24 19:55:46
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Okay, so it finally decided to let me play the game. I did the "test" account and I don't know if I'm that happy with how they designed this thing. It doesn't help that while I was playing a duel, the screen just started changing over and over again, going back to the the tables view and to a blank duel view. The interface is just counter-intuitive, as well. I don't know yet.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#971 by Neo-Reaper
2004-01-24 20:27:06
neoreaper@excite.com http://octobermoon.homeip.net
That actually sounds buggy to me.  I played the test account a while back and remember the interface being simple and effective (especially to someone like me who barely knew how to play the game).

"Dream of me... and maybe, just maybe, this nightmare will end."
#972 by lwf
2004-01-24 20:28:50
It's likely that jafd linked some kind of sabotaged setup file.

Are you here right now or are there probably fossils under your meat
#973 by Dethstryk
2004-01-24 20:39:47
jemartin@tcainternet.com
It might have been a fluke thing, while I'm still learning the interface. I mean, it wouldn't let me play a land becasue I dragged it to my other lands, where it was going to go anyway? Counter-intuitive.

I'll try and get the interface down before I really bitch about it, though. But I'm going to do it all in a guest account first.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#974 by Squeaky
2004-01-25 01:45:14
So going back to the car discussion from a while back...

I just took a Matrix for a test drive. I will not be buying that car. Which is a damn shame. I love everything about it... except for the fact that you can't see sweet fuck all behind you. Wanna shoulder check left? Too bad, there's a giant beam blocking your entire view. Shoulder check right? Sure, if you don't mind looking through microscopically small back side windows.

Other than that, the car is almost pure love. But I wont be buying it.

The VW Golf on the other hand...

-szcx
dvds
#975 by Squeaky
2004-01-25 01:46:00
Oh yeah, and the chome detailing on everything on the dash is tacky at best.

-szcx
dvds
#976 by jafd
2004-01-25 01:59:28
You can drag cards within your hand to arrange it, but that's it, you drag nothing into play.

Run the tutorials.

Ask me about your mother.
#977 by Jibble
2004-01-26 01:33:05
#964 yotsuya
Jeez- to paraphrase an old commercial from the 80s, how many of you can picture jafd waving Magic cards in front of Deth, whispering, "It'll make you feel good..."?

I'M NOT A CHICKEN, YOU'RE A TURKEY.

If I had to choose between the '80s classics "Beat Street" or "Breakin'" for a prestigious award, I'd probably have to go with the latter, since its sequel introduced the mind-shattering concept of marrying *electricity* with the boogaloo.
#978 by Ashiran
2004-01-28 23:53:42
The comeback of the previous century.

"Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today, and it won't be you."
#979 by "lemberg"
2004-02-11 06:05:16
jakelemberg@hotmail.com
a couple points.

a) petrochemicals, particularily fertilizer, take oil.  and even without an oil crises, there's going to be food shortages in the future.  (china, for instance, is expected to have demand for the majority of the world's food exports in the not so distant future, according to my geology class.  i'd be more specific, and i feel like an ass for such a vague statement, but during this semester i've expanded my sleeping in class policy.)  any reduction in fertilizer supply would be horrible.

d) the airline industry will be fucked without oil.

b) oil discoveries are over.  there have been no significant oil discoveries since the 70's.  that fact is merely on the record.  (furthermore, the major oil countries are known to inflate their reserves to bolster their position in opec.)  so it's shits tits for this supposed cornucopia of oil out there.

c) there is no viable alternative to oil in any way on any sustainable timescale.  photovoltaic cells are expensive and unreliable.  wind turbines contribute very little, even at massive scale.  fusion- star trek universe fantasy.  hydrogen?  seriously folks, it takes a bunch of energy to free that hydrogen.  it isn't sitting in the earth for us to pump out.   most current "visionaries" figure natural gas in as an important energy source in freeing that hyrdrogen.  natural gas, however, will be "gone" before oil (none of this will truely ever be gone, of course, merely rendered too expensive to get at).

d) however, to argue back against (c), there is always nuclear power and plenty of coal.  coal, as noted by a previous poster, is disasterously pollutant.  nuclear power, for all it's dangers, would seem to be the most likely solution.  of course, there are other problems with nuclear than it's scary aftereffects- namely building the damn things.  they are expensive, slow to construct, and currently offer little incentive to utilities or governments to build.

e) as a dedicated adherent to the free market, i can certainly concede the argument that the world will adjust as oil prices increase.  however, the market is not "fair" and it may not do this at a speed which humankind will appreciate.  that is to say that i harbor few fears that civilization is doomed, but it is folly to imagine a seemless transition.  just because the market will eventually react, are we burdened to wait?  there is no reason why a government or a society should not be educated to look to the future.  would additional money spent on research and construction of the various other fuel sources be money wasted?


so what in the hell am i trying to say here.  i really don't know.  i took a hella interesting class from an interesting (and somewhat eccentric) prof last semester: "phyics 18: energy sustainibility."  we were offered no solutions, merely presented with the problem (namely, the end of cheap oil) and an assload of related shit.  it got thoughts rolling around in my head.

sure, there have been doomsayers before.  but it is important to recognize that society has encountered "doom" before.  civilization as a whole has not ended, but many civilizations have, and most often due to living beyond the means of an "enviroment" (i put it in scare quotes because enviromentalists are pussies.) the most interesting read i can think of concerning this topic is "the collapse of complex societies" by somebody what-his-face.  (the book also borders on the dangerously boring)

the more i think of the whole thing, the more i welcome it.  let's hear it for interesting times.  fuck the future.  have a beer to living at a peak of civilization, and another to the hope that it isn't the last one.  so there's my conclusion.  looking at the various stuff, i deem an energy crises to be unavoidable, and that's great.  we'll make it through, but it probably won't be pretty, and why should it?


(now who wants to elaborate at this sort of incomprehensible and poorly informed rate about the brewing water crises?!)
#980 by Dethstryk
2004-02-11 12:45:19
jemartin@tcainternet.com
k

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#981 by "808 35135"
2004-11-17 01:00:15
MAYBE ITS ALL A DREAM?
#982 by Jibble
2004-11-17 02:19:42
no.

I swear to god, if you fuckers don't learn how to link I'm going to destroy you all.
#983 by Dumdeedum
2004-11-17 03:08:59
http://www.dumdeedum.com
Aha!  I thought "808 35135" was a little strange and yes indeed, if you convert it from leet speak you get "bob esies"... which doesn't make much sense until you reverse the letters and get "seise bob" which is obviously supposed to be "seize bob".

Guards, seize Bob!

#984 by BobJustBob
2004-11-17 03:48:59
I'm innocent!

Dood.
#985 by Dumdeedum
2004-11-17 04:05:25
http://www.dumdeedum.com
Oh yeah?  Innocent of what, eh?  Innocent of what?

Send in the sinister old Chinese torturer!

#986 by zimbardo_ugly
2004-11-22 19:58:41
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
You are not paranoid if they really are after you, Bob.

Rot-corpse Sumatran art amuses proctor.
#987 by zimbardo_ugly
2004-11-22 19:59:06
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
That should have been you, Bob.

Rot-corpse Sumatran art amuses proctor.
#988 by BobJustBob
2004-11-22 20:08:35
They're afraid of my radical ideas about game design! They want to do away with gameplay and game developers, and instead have teams of monkeys coding games based off bad movies!

Dood.
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